New build small size high isolation project

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Soundman2020
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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#61

Postby Soundman2020 » Thu, 2019-Nov-21, 10:33

Looks good! But plug the ends of the conduit with something! Even screwed up newspaper. You don't want concrete getting inside!!!! :shock: :cop:

- Stuart -



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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#62

Postby Purelythemusic » Fri, 2019-Nov-22, 18:12

Hi All,

What a week, quite tight for timings! The concrete contractors used a polymer modified crete which is designed not to need floating and is self flattening and levelling to an extent...twice the price of normal crete pkus pump amd their labour to lay, but the finish looks decent, much better than your average concrete pour. Unfortunately they underestimated the quantity somehow! So I was left to do the corridor, luckily my usual supplier could get it this afternoon...I usually get mix on site so you don’t have extra or run out! We tanked the corridor this morning which is the right way round anyway so maybe it was meant to be : )

I haven’t been able to get in to take a pic of the studio floor yet...still a bit green! Got as much conduit as time would allow! Learnt how to bend conduit which enabled large radius bends...

Render is being delivered on Tuesday, just need ro decide whether to render in any power cables... power cables remdered in is doable but back boxes for sockets etc are not really possible as we’d have to chase out the precious inner wall plus remove that area of tanking, neither of which seem wise! We could fix them to the render/plaster finish using adhesive or super small screws, plastic fixings or small resin fixings...possibly!

Silencer design is in the final stages and we’re going to make our own doors.

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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#63

Postby Purelythemusic » Thu, 2019-Nov-28, 16:00

Hi All,

As we’re rendering...we’re using a One Coat Render with mesh embedded...

I’m wondering about finishes. I had thought, plaster for the inside of the studio and masonry paint on the corridor.

I have been thinking about thin coat acrylic render (corse is 1.8mm thick colour through render). It’s more expensive than just paint but you can get nice textures... I thought corridor could be medium aggregate blah blah.

For the inside of the studio, is there a benefit to making the side walls a bit irregular... like the 1.8mm aggregate, or is it too small to have a scattering effect...do we even want one? I think anything rougher than that (like tyrolene) might be uncomfortable for the occupants...

Just a thought : )

Fyi current plan for inner room cables in the wall, it to hold the cables in place with Sticks like turbo... 15min cure time and can go on wet substrates... I don’t want to use clips as they’ll go through the precious tanking!

Oh also I made a mistake when pouring the corridor concrete...can you guess what it is yet!? : )

Update tomorrow!

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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#64

Postby Purelythemusic » Fri, 2019-Dec-06, 20:32

Hi All,

Been quite a tricky couple of weeks as the cool weather and lack of natural air flow in the building has meant the internal render has taken ages to set up...also more than half of it is on tanking which means there is no natural suction to bond it to the masonry...

Basically I’ve been out most nights floating up the render we put on before midday! Sometimes it’s still not been ready!

Anyway, corridor is almost completely rendered and studio is rendered ready for skimming the 2 side walls and front wall.
Ceiling blocks had a coat of tanking as we had it lying around which should seal the blocks up nicely!

Cables that need to be in the walls are there...Sticks like ‘’ turbo worked a treat.

C’est Voilla!

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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#65

Postby Purelythemusic » Sat, 2019-Dec-14, 19:59

Hi All,

Bit of a slow week, now lost all my helpers : ) on your own things take longer but also are mentally more difficult without other people to bounce off!

Skimmed the 3 walls that may be partially seen, cut the section of concrete from the corridor that was causing a flanking path (no one spotted it) : ) which was a hideous job. Rendered the entrance wall and was going to get ready for top coating the corridor but the rain and wind this week has been intense and with the moisture inside produced by drying our render and plaster the corridor render was damp...either from condensation dewing on the coldest parts (where the masonry is soaked from the outside) or from the soaked masonry coming right the way through! This may have been compounded by me having to take the plastic roof off as it was starting to pull the scaffolding in on itself...a job I did at night : )

Either way I decided that I needed to give the roof some attention and the exterior. I put a 5mm render scratch coat on the outside on the worst bit, cut the membrane to use it as a bit of a gutter rather than have roof water running straight down, and decided the roof verge details and ordered the suitable products from the manufacturer with their guidance. The field tech came out on Friday and we’ve done a ‘peel test’ to check the AC primer (which can be used down to 0 degrees and have a very fast cure) will bond to the concrete. I spent the rest of Friday prepping the Aluminium trim which I am using for the verge detail. Hope to get this on next week so the rainwater from the roof doesn’t saturate the concrete and the majority of the water off the roof falls outside the masonry.

Pics end of the week:

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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#66

Postby Soundman2020 » Sat, 2019-Dec-14, 22:34

I've been away for a week, and just catching up on threads, so....

Silencer design is in the final stages and we’re going to make our own doors.
Yup! :thu: I sent that to Tom yesterday. The entire HVAC design is in place, but will need a bit if tweaking because of some comments that Tom sent me earlier today, about his plans for the "lobby/storage area". Basically, he wants as much as possible space up near the ceiling for his storage, but I'm using most of that for the HVAC AHU and duct-work. So I'll be moving that as far down the room as I can, to free up some headroom for storage.

Also, the door design is roughed in now: it's based on the "site-built door" thread: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=23 .. but even beefier, because of Tom's extra high isolation needs. We'll post more details on that as the design is finalized.

Basically I’ve been out most nights floating up the render we put on before midday!
Fun and games! Playing with render is fun, isn't it? (Not!) But it looks great, Tom. You seem to have done a good job there.

For the inside of the studio, is there a benefit to making the side walls a bit irregular... like the 1.8mm aggregate, or is it too small to have a scattering effect...do we even want one? I think anything rougher than that (like tyrolene) might be uncomfortable for the occupants...
Probably too late for this comment, but no, there's not really much benefit from that, unless it is extremely irregular... and uncomfortable, as you say! There's a basic principle of acoustics that sound waves can only be affected by object that are about the same size as the wavelength, or larger. So a 1.8mm variation in surface would only have a useful effect on extreme ultrasonic frequencies (!) Your dog and any bats that take up residence in there might appreciate it... :) If the surface undulations were maybe 2cm deep, that would have an effect for frequencies above about 15 kHz... still not very useful. Besides, most of your wall surfaces are going to have some type of acoustic treatment on them, so the effect would be unused in any case.

Just keep them flat and smooth, and let the treatment do the job.

Oh also I made a mistake when pouring the corridor concrete...can you guess what it is yet!? : )
:shock: Ooops! You forgot to decouple? :)

cut the section of concrete from the corridor that was causing a flanking path
:thu: What did you use to cut that? Angle grinder? You'll need to fill that gap that you created there, at some point. Backer rod and caulk will do the trick..

with the moisture inside produced by drying our render and plaster the corridor render was damp...either from condensation dewing on the coldest parts (where the masonry is soaked from the outside) or from the soaked masonry coming right the way through! This may have been compounded by me having to take the plastic roof off as it was starting to pull the scaffolding in on itself...a job I did at night : )
You probably don't want to hear this, but it's going to take a long time for that to dry out properly. Once you get the HVAC in, you can set it to just circulate air through the studio, and maybe dehumidify as well. Even so, it's going to take a while. Don't forget that your underlying concrete is still curing, and will be for months. Concrete reaches maximum strength after a month or two, but carries on curing for years, actually. It's a common misconception that concrete "dries", as the water evaporates, but that's not the case: concrete does not "dry"... rather, it "cures". Its a chemical reaction that takes up the water, slowly, and it takes years to fully complete, if you get down to the microscopic level and take a close look. So don't expect the room to be fully dry for a long time yet (weeks to months: not years!). Especially in your current damp environment outside, with the rain and high humidity: it takes even longer like that.

Pics end of the week:
Looks good! Or rather, itl looks ugly, which is good, because it is supposed to look ugly at this point!

But do protect your conduit bundles. Those are fragile, and a dropped tool or careless move could damage them. Put something over them, such as an up-turned bucket with a brick on top, or a wooden box of some type.

You might also want to protect the ends of your hanging metal ties, so you don't hurt yourself with the sharp tips. Bits of scrap rubber pushed over the ends will do the job. Or something similar.

- Stuart -



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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#67

Postby Purelythemusic » Fri, 2020-Jan-17, 19:29

Well Hello,

Just before Christmas, against all English weather odds and possibly manufacturers specification, we got the roof water proofing on. It involved the tarp being on and off, blowtorch being used to dry the concrete and some very resilient help!

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After the necessary break, but which was mentally long for me as I just wanted to get cracking again, my first week back has been a taste of the last week in December but not so severe.

Scaffolders didn’t turn up to pick up the scaff but nothing new here... we did it ourselves and then they were compelled to pick it up.

Dried the walls as best as possible with the blow torch...worked surprisingly well. Got the aluminium track on ready for the EPS insulation, and adhered the EPS to the wall!

Looking forward to rendering next week weather permitting!

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One of the reasons to prioritise the external work is that the walls were taking in so much moisture it was coming through the render in the corridor, which meant that ck tinuing work in there would not be wise amd likely to fail.

We have moved forward considerably with the design thanks to Stuart, over the past few weeks, I not have an overall HVAC plan and detail on the biggest silencers and some detail on the next stage for the corridor... a third leaf no less! Don’t think I hadn’t noticed Stuart ; ) it is verrry necessary for the spring in our step so to speak.

I’ve ordered the materials cut to size for our silencers, apart from the MLV and duct liner... turns out they will be over 300kg each... some plans are being formulated to lift the beasts into the ceiling void... with 70mm clearance...should be fun!

I also have the external door frame... necessary to render up to...this largest stock one is for a 55mm solid core fire door... some additions will likely be made to the frame to up rate it for isolation.


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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#68

Postby Starlight » Fri, 2020-Jan-17, 20:08

Purelythemusic wrote:... our silencers ... will be over 300kg each... some plans are being formulated to lift the beasts into the ceiling void...


300kg is the weight of a mid-sized grand piano. That is heavy! I was about to suggest using a plasterboard lift as I bought one and reckon it will do for lifting the baffle boxes (silencers) into place, except I just checked and it can only lift up to 68kg, so that idea is out the window. You now have me wondering how heavy my baffle boxes are going to be as I will be facing the same challenge as you in the not too distant future. Let us know what you decide to do.

Regarding the penetrating rain, I can hear in my head the start of something: "The drizzle in Brizzle is wetter than the rain in Spain." It needs improving.

By the way, I am really enjoying following your build report and photos.



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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#69

Postby Soundman2020 » Fri, 2020-Jan-17, 22:49

You now have me wondering how heavy my baffle boxes are going to be as I will be facing the same challenge as you in the not too distant future.
They wont be as heavy as Tom's! That's a rather "overkill" design I did for his, because he's aiming for such high isolation. With those goal posts set way up there, it needs some extreme measures to stand a chance of reaching them.

However, yours will probably still be pretty heavy... Have you figured out your air flow rates and velocities yet?

- Stuart -



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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#70

Postby Starlight » Sat, 2020-Jan-18, 05:04

Soundman2020 wrote:Have you figured out your air flow rates and velocities yet?

Thanks, Stuart. I will reply over in my topic and let Tom continue with his, here.



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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#71

Postby Purelythemusic » Sat, 2020-Jan-18, 20:17

Starlight wrote:
Purelythemusic wrote:... our silencers ... will be over 300kg each... some plans are being formulated to lift the beasts into the ceiling void...


300kg is the weight of a mid-sized grand piano. That is heavy! I was about to suggest using a plasterboard lift as I bought one and reckon it will do for lifting the baffle boxes (silencers) into place, except I just checked and it can only lift up to 68kg, so that idea is out the window. You now have me wondering how heavy my baffle boxes are going to be as I will be facing the same challenge as you in the not too distant future. Let us know what you decide to do.

Regarding the penetrating rain, I can hear in my head the start of something: "The drizzle in Brizzle is wetter than the rain in Spain." It needs improving.

By the way, I am really enjoying following your build report and photos.



Yes is will be a significant challenge ; )

Elizer Doooalot maybe : ) lyrics can be tweaked...

Thanks for the interest!


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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#72

Postby Purelythemusic » Fri, 2020-Jan-24, 19:20

Hi All,

Not a lot to report for this week, weather has been heavy cloud which has kept the temperature up enough to render the EPS with the basecoat which makes the building essentially weather tight!... bar the outside door...

We also received all the silencer box cuts so I’ll formulate the cunning plan to make and fit those... MLV should be with us early next week.

We used a propane/electric heater around the area to render to dry out and raise the surface and air temps... worked a treat when used wisely... like having a portable summer : )

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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#73

Postby Soundman2020 » Fri, 2020-Jan-24, 19:30

:thu: Finally, a weather-tight shell! (Well, almost...)



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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#74

Postby Purelythemusic » Tue, 2020-Jan-28, 19:10

The time has come.

I have a bit of a plan of how we are going to build and instal the largest and heaviest silencers.

I was originally planning on building a timber frame which would support the silencer along it’s length so it didn’t bend and break under it’s own weight. Then then it was up there heave ho it off the frame and into position.

The current plan is to make a 25x25mmx3mm steel frame as this will give us more room (the silencer is 380 high and the space is 470. It will also be more likely to allow us to move it off... the plan is to build the silencer on the frame on top of a Genie lift (the type we typically use to lift steel beams). Then when it’s at the right height, shunt it onto some rails lubed up and nudge it next to it’s resting place then slide it off the frame onto the silencer sleeve boxes which we left in when shuttering the concrete topping. We are using self levelling compound to make it as flat as possible where the silencers will rest.

Metal for the frame is coming tomorrow afternoon as is the genie lift.

The MLV was delivered today... certainly heavy!

Still umming and ahhing over the duct lining!

Wish us luck : )


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Re: New build small size high isolation project

#75

Postby Soundman2020 » Wed, 2020-Jan-29, 03:20

Sounds like a good plan, Tom. Don't forget that you have to get the rubber pads under the silencers at some point: they should be decoupled from the ceiling. Those are not shown in the model: I need to do the math, to figure out what sizes and durometer you will need, and where best to put them. I'll e-mail you some details on that over the next couple of days, so you can order the right stuff.

- Stuart -




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